[Game] Mineclonia [0.116.1]

[repetitivestrain]

/weather rain or /toggledownfall. Rain and snow are controlled by the same weather condition and selected by biome.

[repetitivestrain]

PSA: the next release of Mineclonia will be attended by a number of changes respecting map generation. The most prominent improvement is a new Minecraft-compatible terrain and structure generator which is enabled by default in new worlds created with the "singlenode" mapgen enabled--this generator will generate worlds practically identical to those produced by Minecraft 1.20.4 from the same seeds, but it is rather slow and resource-intensive: 8 GB of available memory and a 4 core CPU released in 2019 or more recently are non-negotiable requirements, and we also advise that you enable 4 or more map generator threads in minetest.conf.

Second in noteworthiness to this is the fact that this map generator's structure generator will be enabled in existing and new worlds for all map generators on Luanti 5.14, which enables the generation of full-sized variants of certain structures that are as of now only available in miniature form, such as strongholds, mineshafts, nether fortresses, mansions, ocean monuments, and end cities.

This poses implications for mods that introduce structures or read biome data. See viewtopic.php?p=447210 for further details.

[corasTenthTry]

0.117.0 was just released.

It features a lot of new stuff, most notably the new mapgen features by halon/repetitivestrain



Changes

• New minecraft compatible mapgen (select singlenode, needs fast computer and setting "emerge_threads" set to at least 4) [halon]
• New large structures even on normal mapgens [halon]
• Chiseled Bookshelf [bgstack15]
• Somewhat improve distribution of some pseudorandom things (e.g. fishing and treasure) [j-r, cora]
• (Optional) minecraft liquid dynamics in LUA [cosin]
• Fix: Bottles can be used to pick up water again [cosin]
• Fix: Beehives and -nests drop in their filled state when using silk touch
• Some fixes to Anvil costs [halon]
• Pufferfish added [halon]
• Powder snow death message [halon]
• Cats can drop string now [WillConker]
• Exclude some mobs from attachment to boats and minecarts [noone]
• Saddle is craftable now and was removed from some structure loot tables [WillConker]
• Overhauled Arrow logic [ellesheepy]
• Repeaters and Comparators can no longer be stacke above each other
• Fix: Dripstone no longer makes holes in the bedrock
• Soul Soil can now be used to spawn withers [JoseDouglas26]
• Reinforced Deepslate is now immune to wither attacks [JoseDouglas26]
• Axolotl no longer eat buckets [JoseDouglas26]
• New Bat Model [halon]
• Shears can now remove equipment from mobs [JoseDouglas26]
• Interaction of mob heads with the note block [JoseDouglas26]
• Beehives and Cakes interact with comparators [JoseDouglas26]
• Target block emits dynamic power [JoseDouglas26]
• Target block achievement [JoseDouglas26]
• Hanging Signs [cora, halon, JoseDouglas26]
• Item Frames interact with comparators [JoseDouglas26]
• Trees grown from saplings now receive correct biome coloring
• Make wandering trader less likely to spawn [halon]
• Determinism of enchantments fixed [halon]
• Mushroom blocks drop less mushrooms now [JoseDouglas26]
• Itemframse can no longer be rotated with screwdrivers [JoseDouglas26]
• Powered Copper Bulbs [JoseDouglas26]
• Fix: Crafting grid swallowing items when damaged during crafting [j-r]

Some notes on the new Mapgen Features

• On engine mapgen (v7, valleys, carpathian.. ) the new structures only work with luanti 5.14+
• The (minecraft-compatible) lua mapgen is accessible by selecting "singlenode" as mapgen. A good computer is needed for this and "num_emerge_threads" should be set to 4 or higher in settings.
• luanti 5.15-dev is recommended for the lua mapgen due to it's support for non-cubic chunks (only applies to newly created maps)
• To mod authors: mods using singlenode mapgen NEED UPDATING - it is sadly not possible for the game to detect this.

[Melkor]

What exactly is "a good computer"? From what year? A modern one?
thanks for the update

[corasTenthTry]

It depends on how slow you find bearable i suppose, best just try if it's something for you and/or you think it's worth it for the more mc like mapgen.

[corasTenthTry]

And immediately a 0.117.1 hotfix since lush caves wouldn't generate in the new LUA mapgen due to a wrong conflict resolve.

[repetitivestrain]

What exactly is "a good computer"? From what year? A modern one?
thanks for the update

I detailed this in the post immediately above the release announcement. Any mainstream x86 processor released after 2019 should suffice.

[Melkor]

Oh, i see! sorry! I'm going to pay more attention

[juiceautomatica]

Do I understand this correctly, if you select singlenode you get the new mapgen, and if you select v7 you get the same mapgen as previous (but potentially with new structures)?

- On engine mapgen (v7, valleys, carpathian.. ) the new structures only work with luanti 5.14+
- The (minecraft-compatible) lua mapgen is accessible by selecting "singlenode" as mapgen.

[repetitivestrain]

Do I understand this correctly, if you select singlenode you get the new mapgen, and if you select v7 you get the same mapgen as previous (but potentially with new structures)?

- On engine mapgen (v7, valleys, carpathian.. ) the new structures only work with luanti 5.14+
- The (minecraft-compatible) lua mapgen is accessible by selecting "singlenode" as mapgen.

That's correct, yes. Structures from the new map generator generate under v7/other engine mapgens on Luanti 5.14 and later.

[Twilit140]

I've noticed that my crop fields are going from barely planted to being 100% fully grown in just a minute or 2. I'm also experiencing absurd amounts of lag involving item drops and crafting despite being at 60fps. I suspect the tick speed (or luanti's equivalent to such a function) on my game is set absurdly high.

I'm only using a simple tree cutter mod and the only setting i adjusted was increasing the minimum and maximum number of village jobs.

I can't seem to find a setting related to tick speed. I'm also stuck on mobile only. Any idea what might be going on?

[repetitivestrain]

I've noticed that my crop fields are going from barely planted to being 100% fully grown in just a minute or 2. I'm also experiencing absurd amounts of lag involving item drops and crafting despite being at 60fps. I suspect the tick speed (or luanti's equivalent to such a function) on my game is set absurdly high.

I'm only using a simple tree cutter mod and the only setting i adjusted was increasing the minimum and maximum number of village jobs.

I can't seem to find a setting related to tick speed. I'm also stuck on mobile only. Any idea what might be going on?

The dedicated server step option configures the default globalstep interval, but it is not effective in singleplayer sessions, where the game attempts to drive the server loop at the frame rate of the game window. Unfortunately I think this indicates that your phone is just too slow to admit of running Mineclonia well.

[Twilit140]

I've noticed that my crop fields are going from barely planted to being 100% fully grown in just a minute or 2. I'm also experiencing absurd amounts of lag involving item drops and crafting despite being at 60fps. I suspect the tick speed (or luanti's equivalent to such a function) on my game is set absurdly high.

I'm only using a simple tree cutter mod and the only setting i adjusted was increasing the minimum and maximum number of village jobs.

I can't seem to find a setting related to tick speed. I'm also stuck on mobile only. Any idea what might be going on?

The dedicated server step option configures the default globalstep interval, but it is not effective in singleplayer sessions, where the game attempts to drive the server loop at the frame rate of the game window. Unfortunately I think this indicates that your phone is just too slow to admit of running Mineclonia well.

Tis a shame. Fair enough then.

[Blockhead]

I've noticed that my crop fields are going from barely planted to being 100% fully grown in just a minute or 2. I'm also experiencing absurd amounts of lag involving item drops and crafting despite being at 60fps. I suspect the tick speed (or luanti's equivalent to such a function) on my game is set absurdly high.

I'm only using a simple tree cutter mod and the only setting i adjusted was increasing the minimum and maximum number of village jobs.

I can't seem to find a setting related to tick speed. I'm also stuck on mobile only. Any idea what might be going on?

The dedicated server step option configures the default globalstep interval, but it is not effective in singleplayer sessions, where the game attempts to drive the server loop at the frame rate of the game window. Unfortunately I think this indicates that your phone is just too slow to admit of running Mineclonia well.

Wouldn't this indicate that Twilit should try setting a lower fps_max to lower the tickrate?

Edit: Or run the game in Multiplayer mode so it obeys the normal globalstep interval instead of trying to run it too fast.

[ryvnf]

I do not think tick speed affects fps and vice versa. I am pretty sure it is simply uncapped in singleplayer.

In any case, having lower tickrate should not result in more lag as if it takes 20ms to update mobs for example, then it will add a 20ms delay to the tick interval. So if you have lag the tick rate automatically decreases with the lag.

The only way to have a capped tick speed as far as I know is to run a dedicated server, but I am pretty sure that is not the issue.

[ShallowDweller]

1st of all, thanks for the update and all the hard work!

I have 3 questions about the mapgen update:
1) i heard that by default, Luanti uses total machine cores -2 for map gen. Is that correct and does that mean that people with 6+ processor cores don't need to tweak the setting mentioned?
2) How does the new mapgen affect old worlds, if at all?
3) How do I check (as an end user) if a mod (like Extra Structures) was affected by the update (just brute-force testing or is there something in the source code that i should search)?

Have a nice week!

[repetitivestrain]

1st of all, thanks for the update and all the hard work!

I have 3 questions about the mapgen update:
1) i heard that by default, Luanti uses total machine cores -2 for map gen. Is that correct and does that mean that people with 6+ processor cores don't need to tweak the setting mentioned?

This is lamentably untrue, because the built-in engine map generators are incapable of supporting multiple map generation threads. Luanti is considering replacing the present default of 1 emerge thread with more sensible values for bespoke mapgens implemented in Lua that are not impacted by such issues, this notwithstanding: https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/pull/16634

2) How does the new mapgen affect old worlds, if at all?

It does not, beyond generating larger and more deterministic structures in new chunks if Luanti 5.14 is installed.

3) How do I check (as an end user) if a mod (like Extra Structures) was affected by the update (just brute-force testing or is there something in the source code that i should search)?

You consider whether the mod affects map generation... Any mod that introduces structures or decorations (which this one manifestly does) will require updates to function under the new Lua map generator, which is completely incompatible with all existing engine facilities for map generation, even on_generated callbacks, and it is recommended that mods adopt the new structure generator in any event to avail themselves of the improved determinism and asynchronicity.

Have a nice week!

Same to you.

[ShallowDweller]

previous replies in the spoiler (forgot how label spoilers)

Spoiler

1st of all, thanks for the update and all the hard work!

I have 3 questions about the mapgen update:
1) i heard that by default, Luanti uses total machine cores -2 for map gen. Is that correct and does that mean that people with 6+ processor cores don't need to tweak the setting mentioned?

This is lamentably untrue, because the built-in engine map generators are incapable of supporting multiple map generation threads. Luanti is considering replacing the present default of 1 emerge thread with more sensible values for bespoke mapgens implemented in Lua that are not impacted by such issues, this notwithstanding: https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/pull/16634

2) How does the new mapgen affect old worlds, if at all?

It does not, beyond generating larger and more deterministic structures in new chunks if Luanti 5.14 is installed.

3) How do I check (as an end user) if a mod (like Extra Structures) was affected by the update (just brute-force testing or is there something in the source code that i should search)?

You consider whether the mod affects map generation... Any mod that introduces structures or decorations (which this one manifestly does) will require updates to function under the new Lua map generator, which is completely incompatible with all existing engine facilities for map generation, even on_generated callbacks, and it is recommended that mods adopt the new structure generator in any event to avail themselves of the improved determinism and asynchronicity.

Have a nice week!

Same to you.

I see, thanks!
(seems like changing the 0 behavior from -2 to /2 saves RAM if I understood that pull request correctly?)

One last question (just to make sure i understood everything correctly): after updating Mineclonia, ALL the actions needed by the end-user are (please let me know if I'm missing or misunderstanding any steps):
1).Open Luanti settings -> Check the checboxes at the bottom of the options screen -> Advanced -> Advanced -> scroll down to Mapgen -> Number of emerge threads (or "num_emerge_threads" if showing technical names) -> set to either 0, 4 or higher (EVEN if NOT using singlenode worlds)
2).Disable mapgen mods for old worlds or create a file named "mcl_levelgen.conf" in the mods' base directories with the content in the code box below if the mod can't be simply disabled for whatever reason (unknown nodes left in the world):

Code: Select all

disable_mcl_levelgen = true

(is this needed for all mapgens or only for singlenode worlds?)
3).Select the Singlenode world gen in order to make our worlds look more minecraft-like meaning that we can use any Minecraft seed previewer to predict the result.

Sorry for the stupid questions. I just want to confirm which actions are needed for all world gens or just for singlenode.

[repetitivestrain]

I see, thanks!
(seems like changing the 0 behavior from -2 to /2 saves RAM if I understood that pull request correctly?)

One last question (just to make sure i understood everything correctly): after updating Mineclonia, ALL the actions needed by the end-user are (please let me know if I'm missing or misunderstanding any steps):
1).Open Luanti settings -> Check the checboxes at the bottom of the options screen -> Advanced -> Advanced -> scroll down to Mapgen -> Number of emerge threads (or "num_emerge_threads" if showing technical names) -> set to either 0, 4 or higher (EVEN if NOT using singlenode worlds)

This setting must only be applied to singlenode worlds with the new level generator. Enabling it in other worlds will run afoul of numerous thread-safety issues with the engine's built-in map generators.

2).Disable mapgen mods for old worlds or create a file named "mcl_levelgen.conf" in the mods' base directories with the content in the code box below if the mod can't be simply disabled for whatever reason (unknown nodes left in the world):

Code: Select all

disable_mcl_levelgen = true

(is this needed for all mapgens or only for singlenode worlds?)

It's not necessary to alter this setting at all, because the new level generator will never be enabled in existing worlds.

3).Select the Singlenode world gen in order to make our worlds look more minecraft-like meaning that we can use any Minecraft seed previewer to predict the result.

Sorry for the stupid questions. I just want to confirm which actions are needed for all world gens or just for singlenode.

Correct.

[ShallowDweller]

I see, thanks!
(seems like changing the 0 behavior from -2 to /2 saves RAM if I understood that pull request correctly?)

One last question (just to make sure i understood everything correctly): after updating Mineclonia, ALL the actions needed by the end-user are (please let me know if I'm missing or misunderstanding any steps):
1).Open Luanti settings -> Check the checboxes at the bottom of the options screen -> Advanced -> Advanced -> scroll down to Mapgen -> Number of emerge threads (or "num_emerge_threads" if showing technical names) -> set to either 0, 4 or higher (EVEN if NOT using singlenode worlds)

This setting must only be applied to singlenode worlds with the new level generator. Enabling it in other worlds will run afoul of numerous thread-safety issues with the engine's built-in map generators.

2).Disable mapgen mods for old worlds or create a file named "mcl_levelgen.conf" in the mods' base directories with the content in the code box below if the mod can't be simply disabled for whatever reason (unknown nodes left in the world):

Code: Select all

disable_mcl_levelgen = true

(is this needed for all mapgens or only for singlenode worlds?)

It's not necessary to alter this setting at all, because the new level generator will never be enabled in existing worlds.

3).Select the Singlenode world gen in order to make our worlds look more minecraft-like meaning that we can use any Minecraft seed previewer to predict the result.

Sorry for the stupid questions. I just want to confirm which actions are needed for all world gens or just for singlenode.

Correct.

I see. Thanks for clarifying!

EDIT: I forgot to say you guys did an excellent job with this update. The textures, the farming operations, the hunger and probably more I'm yet to come across. Keep it up!

[Codiac]

I see, thanks!
(seems like changing the 0 behavior from -2 to /2 saves RAM if I understood that pull request correctly?)

One last question (just to make sure i understood everything correctly): after updating Mineclonia, ALL the actions needed by the end-user are (please let me know if I'm missing or misunderstanding any steps):
1).Open Luanti settings -> Check the checboxes at the bottom of the options screen -> Advanced -> Advanced -> scroll down to Mapgen -> Number of emerge threads (or "num_emerge_threads" if showing technical names) -> set to either 0, 4 or higher (EVEN if NOT using singlenode worlds)

This setting must only be applied to singlenode worlds with the new level generator. Enabling it in other worlds will run afoul of numerous thread-safety issues with the engine's built-in map generators.

So to dumb it way down, if I enable this for one world and then forget about it and start an existing world that didn't use it, it will break that world?

And if I enable it for use in Mineclonia singlenode and then play any other game it might break those?

If this is the case then I think the comments in the Mineclonia settings file should make it significantly clearer how dangerous changing num_emerge_threads is.

Really though, this setting should set the maximum number of threads and then mapgens themselves should enable using more than one. Users shouldn't be expected to risk bricking things or to only one run game mode, or switch every time they change modes or games. i.e. This is an engine bug.

[Blockhead]

i.e. This is an engine bug.

Yes, it's #9357, which it is good to be made aware of.

When it comes to changing mapgen settings, it always pays to be careful with what your settings are before launching any new world.

[repetitivestrain]

i.e. This is an engine bug.

Yes, it's #9357, which it is good to be made aware of.

When it comes to changing mapgen settings, it always pays to be careful with what your settings are before launching any new world.

What's more important to note is that https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/pull/16634 will address precisely this issue, and that lhofhansl should be informed that anything that is to the advantage of singlenode will also benefit users of the 3rd most popular game on ContentDB, and that postponing automatic selection till other mapgen issues are remediated is tantamount to an indefinite postponement, because they arise from fundamental incompatibilities in the design of the existing map generators with parallel processing, and their resolution is still a castle in the air...

[Codiac]

i.e. This is an engine bug.

Yes, it's #9357, which it is good to be made aware of.

When it comes to changing mapgen settings, it always pays to be careful with what your settings are before launching any new world.

What's more important to note is that https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/pull/16634 will address precisely this issue, and that lhofhansl should be informed that anything that is to the advantage of singlenode will also benefit users of the 3rd most popular game on ContentDB, and that postponing automatic selection till other mapgen issues are remediated is tantamount to an indefinite postponement, because they arise from fundamental incompatibilities in the design of the existing map generators with parallel processing, and their resolution is still a castle in the air...

The fall back position for their responses should be to leave the default at 1 and tell users to change it to 0 if they want it automatic.

It doesn't matter if the automatic choice leaves performance on the table, the user can adjust it themselves if it bothers them.

Leaving the user to accidentally break things because the tested changing it and forgot to reset it for other mapgens is a terrible choice.

[Codiac]

Leaving the user to accidentally break things because the tested changing it and forgot to reset it for other mapgens is a terrible choice.

Bah, I misread this. If you currently set it to 0 you will get cores - 2, which is a reasonable default.

We should recommend people set it to 0.