[Mod] Advanced Trains [advtrains] [2.9.0]

[Slightly]

But when I click Create a section on the side facing the crossing for one of them, all the tcb positions show on the menu as included in that section. So what is the difference with linking from this?

This depends on the way the intersection is built. If it is built with a crossing track, then the tracks around the intersection are all included into one section if one is created. However, if the intersection is created without the crossing track (e.g. using diagonal tracks, see attachment), the intersecting tracks are created as two different sections.

Oh, ok. Thanks.

[Blockhead]

I'm working on making some of the formspecs more beginner/kid friendly for casual users (non-railfans). But for some things I'm not sure what the purpose is even after looking at code.

Long-term, I think it's been said that we would like setting up signals to be as easy as placing signals in OpenTTD, especially ones on a simple section with no turnouts. What you may find after you learn what all of the stuff in the UI does is you're no closer to figuring out how to simplify it; that would be its own step.

Also, what exactly is "smart" route doing? I get it's automatic in some way but I'd like to know what it's doing so I know if I want to choose that or just walk the route, which is much easier to understand.
Screenshot 2026-01-12 092742.png

SmartRoute is the way it's recommended to set up all routes nowadays to save time

My video covers the old method https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylG1vHj ... R2dHJhaW5z

Orwell's videos on the new way of doing it can be found at https://advtrains.de/videos/

I haven't actually played much Advtrains since SmartRoute came out, but it should be the same as making all sensible routes from one signal to the next signal(s) manually, with enough button presses. Orwell uses it to create routes in the videos on the site linked above. However, once SmartRoute makes the routes you may have to read the big table of route info(or use the "Show" button after selecting a route) to get what each route is to then name that route.

Now moving the topic back to the first reply section: SmartRoute being used automatically after placing a signal then punching a track node to attach it to would be pretty painless for a lot of users.

[Slightly]

Long-term, I think it's been said that we would like setting up signals to be as easy as placing signals in OpenTTD, especially ones on a simple section with no turnouts. What you may find after you learn what all of the stuff in the UI does is you're no closer to figuring out how to simplify it; that would be its own step.

This ^ kind of highlights the issue for me. I've no idea what OpenTTD is. Advtrains is complex, but much of the complexity could be mitigated with instructions that don't assume so much realistic train knowledge or knowledge of other train sims, give clear steps with more general terminology, and illustrate simpler examples. If players focus on setting up realistic transport systems and they already understand how real railroads work, what we have probably works great, but if a player just wants a cute choochoo to stop at the crossing so the toy freight can chug by... you know... it's a bit much.

SmartRoute is the way it's recommended to set up all routes nowadays to save time
...
I haven't actually played much Advtrains since SmartRoute came out, but it should be the same as making all sensible routes from one signal to the next signal(s) manually, with enough button presses. ...However, once SmartRoute makes the routes you may have to read the big table of route info(or use the "Show" button after selecting a route) to get what each route is to then name that route.
...
Now moving the topic back to the first reply section: SmartRoute being used automatically after placing a signal then punching a track node to attach it to would be pretty painless for a lot of users.

Yes, I'm sure many people like SmartRoute. I guess it's based on certain assumptions about what the player wants? But if it goes wrong, it may not be easy for a casual player to fix if they don't know what it did in the first place, at least that was my limited experience with it.

Oth, I think it's fun to walk the route and set the switches, more like playing with a model train, and that slow, careful process at the beginning let me feel like I was playing the whole time I was learning it. The SmartRoute felt like clicking a button, then reading a lot of numbers and navigating a lot of marker entities trying to fix a problem without knowing what's wrong. It just wasn't as much fun as playing with the little choochoo.

[Maverick2797]

I find that naming the signals as soon as you place them helps a lot with SmartRoute, as you don't have to decode and remember which signal was at which coordinate, especially since they don't always appear in order of what's closest to you. The SmartRoute-created-routes are named by the terminating signal names (and intermediate sections, name these too in complex trackwork) by default too.

[yw05]

Advtrains is complex, but much of the complexity could be mitigated with instructions that don't assume so much realistic train knowledge or knowledge of other train sims, give clear steps with more general terminology, and illustrate simpler examples.

I do want to address this with https://y5nw.de/advtrains-doc/. The problem for me is that this goal is hard to achieve without the perspective from people less familiar with Advtrains, considering that I started the project in 2023, at which point I had around 4 years of experience playing with Advtrains.

I guess it's based on certain assumptions about what the player wants? But if it goes wrong, it may not be easy for a casual player to fix if they don't know what it did in the first place, at least that was my limited experience with it.

I don't think it makes assumptions, although it does require the track sections and signals to be set up. (The latter is not required with manual route programming - it is possible to end a route at a TCB side that does not have a signal assigned to it).

AFAICT the way it works is that it performs a breadth-first search algorithm until it finds TCB sides with a signal (bumpers are also signals since 2.5). These signals are then listed and used as route names by default. I suppose it makes sense to encourage naming signals now that these quite directly affect the "readability" of the setup.

[Slightly]

I guess it's based on certain assumptions about what the player wants? But if it goes wrong, it may not be easy for a casual player to fix if they don't know what it did in the first place, at least that was my limited experience with it.

I don't think it makes assumptions, although it does require the track sections and signals to be set up. (The latter is not required with manual route programming - it is possible to end a route at a TCB side that does not have a signal assigned to it).

It sounds like the SmartRoute would be a great shortcut for the player who already knows how to correctly set up tracks, TCBs, and signals.

[yw05]

It sounds like the SmartRoute would be a great shortcut for the player who already knows how to correctly set up tracks, TCBs, and signals.

Yes. That said, settting up TCBs and signals correctly is an important prerequisite for a functional interlocking system, regardless of whether routes are created manually or with Smart Route.

Considering that Smart Route is expected to generally work, I would be interested in the setup you created that you had trouble with using the Smart Route tool. (It is also interesting to see for documentation purposes.)

This ^ kind of highlights the issue for me. I've no idea what OpenTTD is. Advtrains is complex, but much of the complexity could be mitigated with instructions that don't assume so much realistic train knowledge or knowledge of other train sims, give clear steps with more general terminology, and illustrate simpler examples.

I picked up the work on my manual (again). Would something like this be a good example for explaining the interlocking system?

2026-01-14-23-46-33.png (96.04 KiB) Viewed 708 times

[Maverick2797]

Nice work on the manual, but it reads a bit like a physics textbook rather than an instructional guide to a game that younger children might want to play. The content is good but some parts are hard to read without pre-existing context of how to use advtrains anyway.

[c56]

here some ICE 2 inspired textures for moretrains trainpack (should replace mt silverling textures) probably the same license as the originals (idk)

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moretrains_silberling.png (57.05 KiB) Viewed 625 times

screenshot_20260117_084453.png (470.52 KiB) Viewed 625 times

[Slightly]

I picked up the work on my manual (again). Would something like this be a good example for explaining the interlocking system?

Personally, what I think we need is entry level examples. Once a person is setting up more complex rails, they already know either how trains work, how the mod works, or both. But a player who is more like one who just got a first model train wants to set up a loop, probably, then will happily discover simple tracks like the horntrack and the stoprail (both of which I've simplified in my version of their UIs) and then, finally, will want a second loop to cross the first with a simple perpendicular track. At that point they'll start to think about having two trains that, hopefully, won't crash into each other at the crossing. This player now needs to get the simplest example with minimal new terminology that will help them understand the relationship between the tracks, the tcb and sections, the signal, and a route and the steps for connecting them. Once those concepts are out of the way, figuring out how to manipulate that relationship for more complex layouts is just part of the game. After that, comes the LuaAutomation and I'm also working on some more simpler examples for using those.

Meanwhile, here's an example of how I'm attempting to make the forms easier to use. I was forever having to esc the form and check again if I wanted side a or b, a bit tricky at a distance especially if the form hides the view and I could never remember which was red or green because there's no relationship between the color and the letter that I can think of. Here's my version of A for Amber and B for Blue and we can see both the entity and the form.

readablesides.png (386.37 KiB) Viewed 621 times

The signal forms I'm working on. Names update here and show on the influence point, too. I've restored all the older functionality of the influence button and tidied up how it opens and closes including adding rightclick to the entity to bring it up and a Keep button if it should stay the same when being reassigned (because just move/clear is confusing if you want it to stay the same). The forms have dynamic height so they stay tidy looking and a toggle can show smartroute if it's wanted, hide it if not.

dynamicheight.png (319.88 KiB) Viewed 618 times

signalform.png (182.63 KiB) Viewed 617 times

[Blockhead]

here some ICE 2 inspired textures for moretrains trainpack (should replace mt silverling textures) probably the same license as the originals (idk)

moretrains_silberling_train.png

moretrains_silberling.png

screenshot_20260117_084453.png

Would have to be the same license unless you re-drew every single pixel, because that's a derivative work.

Here's me again wishing we had an easy tool to drop extra textures in and apply repaints without needing to overwrite texture files. Hmm.. maybe that's as easy as a new mod with a tool to set the wagon's texture? Wouldn't necessarily work on all of them, like metro wagons and trams with line displays, but it's a start.

...which was red or green because there's no relationship between the color and the letter that I can think of. Here's my version of A for Amber and B for Blue and we can see both the entity and the form...

readablesides.png

+1; this is also an improvement to people with deuteranopia and protanopia forms of colourblindness. Definitely a no-brainer, should go straight to master.

The signal forms I'm working on. Names update here and show on the influence point, too.

Showing the signal name on the influence point form, yep +1.

This may not be what you meant, but it actually makes me think that when showing a route, we could use waypoints, which are floating text are images with a world position (PlayerMetaRef:hud_add({hud_elem_type = "waypoint" or "image_waypoint"}, ref). This reduces the entities for the server to process if it were done instead of TCB Entities, and if done right, it should be easier to match the route preview to the full listing in the formspec (with some kind of key like numbering)

I've restored all the older functionality of the influence button and tidied up how it opens and closes including adding rightclick to the entity to bring it up and a Keep button if it should stay the same when being reassigned (because just move/clear is confusing if you want it to stay the same).

Don't know what you mean about older functionality, because I reverted back to 2.3.1 and it still had just Keep and Clear and the ability to set the signal aspect (maybe it was an even earlier version?). If you didn't want to move the IP, you just close the form with ESC. Actually, for mobile users it's probably much better to include an X in the corner (would want to do that on the signal form as well (or is that all redundant because you can tap off of the formspec area to close? the inventory doesn't have one..))

[Slightly]

I've restored all the older functionality of the influence button and tidied up how it opens and closes including adding rightclick to the entity to bring it up and a Keep button if it should stay the same when being reassigned (because just move/clear is confusing if you want it to stay the same).

Don't know what you mean about older functionality, because I reverted back to 2.3.1 and it still had just Keep and Clear and the ability to set the signal aspect (maybe it was an even earlier version?)

Restored what had been removed from the modern version PLUS added features. For example, the influence point button came back on the formspec recently but only until the ip is set as far as I could tell. If I wanted to move it after that, the menu seemed to indicate I'd have to unassign it and start over. (I see in the code there is an AUX+rightclick to bring it back but I prefer it on the UI for consistency)

Various other things regarding entity clean up and interaction are more consistent and, hopefully, more intuitive and clearer for beginners now. As for the move/clear thing, one example was when the entity stayed visible after setting, if the player doesn't know to punch the entity to hide it, Clear could be confused with Hide.

EDIT: I restored rotation with the tracktool to the old advtrains signals. And made a degrotate version with 3aspects while I was at it.

showingoldsignalssomelove.png (354.26 KiB) Viewed 513 times

[c56]

i made a bombadier bilevel model w textures excluding reference image (which i just googled)

Screenshot_20260124_094300.png (396.11 KiB) Viewed 506 times

i am not skilled enough to turn this into a train, (the texture should have no alpha where the windows are but i could not figure out how) bilevel.zip contains the .blend file

[Blockhead]

i made a bombadier bilevel model w textures excluding reference image (which i just googled)
Screenshot_20260124_094300.png
i am not skilled enough to turn this into a train, (the texture should have no alpha where the windows are but i could not figure out how) bilevel.zip contains the .blend file

This is a pretty good start, however it also needs to probably be about half that length to not look absolutely oversize and out of place in Advtrains with the sharp curves. So it's pretty common to remove most of the windows out of a wagon.

Edit: It would also help considerably to include the textures in the zip file.

[c56]

i made a bombadier bilevel model w textures excluding reference image (which i just googled)
Screenshot_20260124_094300.png
i am not skilled enough to turn this into a train, (the texture should have no alpha where the windows are but i could not figure out how) bilevel.zip contains the .blend file

This is a pretty good start, however it also needs to probably be about half that length to not look absolutely oversize and out of place in Advtrains with the sharp curves. So it's pretty common to remove most of the windows out of a wagon.

Edit: It would also help considerably to include the textures in the zip file.

thank you for the feedback yes it is too long for sharp curves but i am scared to touch the textures bc i finished them and i would need to edit them, i figured out how to export the model the right way so in-game screenshots, if you want it shorter set the visual size to .5 in the z direction and modify the collision box and wagon span to be like half

screenshot_20260125_091341.png (630.73 KiB) Viewed 464 times

screenshot_20260125_091820.png (767.06 KiB) Viewed 464 times

[Slightly]

I rebuilt the bumper model and gave it the current shared track texture but I haven't decided how it should look otherwise.

bumper_redo.png (783.45 KiB) Viewed 425 times

[Blockhead]

I rebuilt the bumper model and gave it the current shared track texture but I haven't decided how it should look otherwise.

bumper_redo.png

The two red dots are too iconic to retire

[Slightly]

I rebuilt the bumper model and gave it the current shared track texture but I haven't decided how it should look otherwise.

bumper_redo.png

The two red dots are too iconic to retire

Here you go. :)

iconic_dots.png (340.66 KiB) Viewed 419 times

In my efforts to simplify some of the UI, I've edited the bumper UI to show a stripped down signal UI instead of the full signal UI, which I thought was confusing since it's just a bumper without aspects or routes to edit. If I find there's a reason for the full signal/tcb UI to be accessed through the bumper, I can make it toggle on.

simplebumperUI.png (276.21 KiB) Viewed 338 times

[orwell]

I rebuilt the bumper model and gave it the current shared track texture but I haven't decided how it should look otherwise.

bumper_redo.png

The two red dots are too iconic to retire

Here you go. :)
iconic_dots.png


In my efforts to simplify some of the UI, I've edited the bumper UI to show a stripped down signal UI instead of the full signal UI, which I thought was confusing since it's just a bumper without aspects or routes to edit. If I find there's a reason for the full signal/tcb UI to be accessed through the bumper, I can make it toggle on.

simplebumperUI.png

Hi Slightly,

first of all, great work on the formspec redesign, I really like this. It looks overall more clean than the current layout. Also the other additions and fixes look really nice.

For the buffers, they technically don't need the influence point button since they automatically set the influence point already (at their own position).

Where do you keep your changes? Do you have them on git somewhere? If so, I could pull it instead of you mailing a myriad of patches, and also I could try it out myself.

Keep up the great work!

orwell

[orwell]

i made a bombadier bilevel model w textures excluding reference image (which i just googled)
Screenshot_20260124_094300.png
i am not skilled enough to turn this into a train, (the texture should have no alpha where the windows are but i could not figure out how) bilevel.zip contains the .blend file

This is a pretty good start, however it also needs to probably be about half that length to not look absolutely oversize and out of place in Advtrains with the sharp curves. So it's pretty common to remove most of the windows out of a wagon.

Edit: It would also help considerably to include the textures in the zip file.

thank you for the feedback yes it is too long for sharp curves but i am scared to touch the textures bc i finished them and i would need to edit them, i figured out how to export the model the right way so in-game screenshots, if you want it shorter set the visual size to .5 in the z direction and modify the collision box and wagon span to be like half screenshot_20260125_091341.png
screenshot_20260125_091820.png

Hi c56,

did you try to make use of the new wheel position method?

Code: Select all

wheel_positions = {3.0, -3.0}

With that you should be able to improve the positioning of the wagon so that it is not too far out in curves.

orwell

[Slightly]

For the buffers, they technically don't need the influence point button since they automatically set the influence point already (at their own position).

Where do you keep your changes? Do you have them on git somewhere? If so, I could pull it instead of you mailing a myriad of patches, and also I could try it out myself.

Keep up the great work!

orwell

Nice to hear from you. I actually really love the influence point because I can use it to make the trains stop at a natural distance instead of clipping through.

I have a general quality of life patch that is very much a WIP, as in changing every day and only tested in Singleplayer, but you're welcome to take a look.
There are several mods to advtrains here:
https://gitea.your-land.de/Slightly

Ultimately, I plan to put a light, beginner version geared toward my toy train set into a game I'm working on, so everything is aimed toward that goal. My train set will be up there, too, as soon as this patch stabilizes.

New redo of original signal with 4 aspects and degrotate.

redowithshunt.png (90.58 KiB) Viewed 244 times

[orwell]

Nice to hear from you. I actually really love the influence point because I can use it to make the trains stop at a natural distance instead of clipping through.

I have a general quality of life patch that is very much a WIP, as in changing every day and only tested in Singleplayer, but you're welcome to take a look.
There are several mods to advtrains here:
https://gitea.your-land.de/Slightly

Ultimately, I plan to put a light, beginner version geared toward my toy train set into a game I'm working on, so everything is aimed toward that goal. My train set will be up there, too, as soon as this patch stabilizes.

New redo of original signal with 4 aspects and degrotate.

redowithshunt.png

Very nice, thanks a lot. If you don't mind, I'd be happy to backport some of your changes into upstream advtrains. I'll just watch your repos and can cherry-pick your commits, so they remain authored by you. Thank you again for your hard work.

- orwell

[Slightly]

Pretty excited about this. I'm working on making the LuaTrack in lua_automation more beginner friendly. I had already added a sanitizer so code copy/pasted wouldn't be squashed into one line. Still have a couple features to add, but now it lets the player create a new environment here instead of searching out the chat command and... it has syntax checking!

LuaTrack.png (126.2 KiB) Viewed 157 times

[Maverick2797]

LuaTrack.png

Is there any particular reason that this only applies to the LuaATC track (is_dtrack=true) and not the Ops Panel or mesecon controller? Imo they're effectively the same thing with the exception that the LuaATC track can directly interface with a train, and having the uniform UI would make sense.

[Slightly]

LuaTrack.png

Is there any particular reason that this only applies to the LuaATC track (is_dtrack=true) and not the Ops Panel or mesecon controller? Imo they're effectively the same thing with the exception that the LuaATC track can directly interface with a train, and having the uniform UI would make sense.

The only reason is that I'm making things I think are barriers to entry easier for beginners/kids/casual users for a game I'm making, and I can't test things I've never used and maybe don't even quite understand the use case for. Until your question, I didn't even know if any advanced user would be interested since they already use advtrains the way it is. In short, while I'm changing what I use, I try to leave their stuff alone. :) But, if you're also interested in making things in advtrains more user-friendly, PM, and we can share ideas.


Took a break from coding UI to finish my toy signal. I don't hate it. Does this read as a shunting aspect?

toy_shunt_signal.png (312.97 KiB) Viewed 120 times

I know... ballast. I have a super cute hopper wagon that lays the ballast down for me, though, and shows when it's full of gravel or not, so that'll work.

Another new wagons.lua patch. This may work fine in larger wagons on full node platforms, but I found it difficult to hit the exact spot to get on the train with automatic get_on on my tiny trains and half-slab platforms. Now I can stand a safe distance away any place along the length of any wagon with seats to board easily. Next up... enter on either side.

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