[Game] VoxeLibre (formerly known as MineClone2) [0.87]

[lemonzest]

since about 0.84 or somewhere around that, there seems to be a severer lagging issue, it will be fine for a little while then grind to a halt, I left my last game after I got to less than 1 fps. same thing on another computer (that I were playing with) seen it happen on at least 2 or 3 maps (assuming its always happens, not map specific). is everyone getting that?

Yes been getting it a while, Mineclonia is fine and does not slow so dunno what is in Mineclone2 that lags it out

[ancientmariner]

After MineClone2 was the game for me which made Minetest great for me even when owning Minecraft (I like the endless possibilities with mods and different games), I changed to Mineclonia a while ago after development seemed to have stopped. After the recent updates (thank you for that!) and the issue lone_wanderer brought up, I entered one of my MCL2 worlds again and played some hours, re-discovering some stuff.

The issue with the reach, was already answered by ancientmariner, so I would not elaborate further on this.

But besides that, I found some further issues and some questions occurred to me. Sorry in advance for the long post. If you would like me to put some of the issues into a issue tracker of some kind or so, I would gladly do it if you can point me to it.

Issues (numbers for clear structure and possible reference):

1. Villager pathfinding seems to be very buggy, for example if the bed is between two stone "pillars" ("entrance" to their four-block living space with bed and later workbench in my villager trading hall), they try to reach the bed, but get stuck at the corner, giving up after some time and running somewhere else. Sometime they successfully walk to the bed, sometimes this happens. - A) Known issue that things like fences and walls interfere with path finding. Not yet sure of a solution to this. Using Minetest pathfinding and for example, it relies on mobs being 1 high also which means paths can be broken.
2. Workbench and bed do not show if they are occupied, for example "a villager sleeps here", "a villager works here" or "xxx works here" if the villager has a name tag. - A) Cool idea. It could be possible and a cool idea.
3. Villager sometimes won't find bed or workbenches even if it those are only a few blocks away. Luring/moving villagers with beds or workbenches is hard and for longer distances impossible (see below, could you implement the Leash mod in MCL2?). - A) Burgers can be used to lure. Villagers often find their way at the right time of day. Sometimes it takes them a little wondering to unconfuse themselves.
4. Question to the point above: Is this what the hamburger is for? Is this meant as a workaround for the navigation / path finding issue? - A) Burgers are our leashes for villagers. Right click to get them to follow, right click to stop them following.
5. F5 debug info does only show mcl_core:tree for wood, even when the debug option for more info is enables. It show the type like oak, jungle. And as tree trunks are used for houses, "tree" is confusing. Update/correction: Sorry, I now realized that this is only for oak tree, which seems to be the "default tree". Other trees show names. But imo still should be updated to show oak tree. - A) Naming consistency isn't great and does need a little attention. But it's wrapped in with translation stuff also so not easy to do and could negatively impact more than it helps.
6. Village's houses spawn in different heights, one house is like thirty blocks above ground. I cannot block the doors quickly enough to "repair" the village as villagers fall to their deaths. The paths between the houses sometimes also "jump" or "fall" from one block to another multiple blocks in height, so it is impossible for villagers to use the path or the path will lead them to their death. Suggestion: Set a limit for the height difference between adjacent houses. The village "spawner" can already carve our hills and mountains or put houses on artificial hills. The only problem seems to be that the height difference is not checked or the default value too high. - A) Our village spawning logic needs to be overhauled. It takes too long, is laggy and picks a random corner and makes it that high.
7. Tree leaves sometimes won't decay properly, even when the trunk is removed completely and there is no connection to another tree's leaves or other blocks. - A) I think it's probably within 6 blocks of another trunk or house.
8. Addition to 1: Maybe the same as above, maybe a separate issue: I fenced off a village to prevent villagers falling into the deep with fences and walls, but sometimes they run around the fence on the wrong side even when fence/wall should prevent them to even go there, then falling into the deep, sometimes dying. They should not be able to go there (on the rim of a block with fence or wall above it and no block/s on the side below the villager) and/or at least not fall into the deep. - A) Are you sure they cannot jump over from a high block next to fence? Is there something over the other side they're interested in pathing towards? Like a job block, bell or bed?

Some stuff that may or may not be intentional:

• Grass grows or spawns on pathways. If intentional, then no problem, as this could be a run down village the player has to tidy up a bit first. - A) Probably not intentional. It's just we have like 850 bugs and some need attention before this, or a contributor hasn't decided to put in a PR for this.
• Creeper will explode near villagers, too. In Mineclonia they only explore near the player and will not harm villagers or golems (last I can understand, killing villagers should be something for higher levels in a levelling system like easy, advanced, hardcore). - A) Fair point. I'm guessing MCLA has modified this, but I've not really looked into the detail.

Option dialog:

1. "no mobs in protected areas", shouldn't that be boolean instead of a value?
2. According to the info text, "Mob navigation hacks" at the moment only supports teleporting home golems if too far away from home? This is a bit unclear and when I found the option I had my hopes up it would fix the faulty pathfinding of villagers mentioned above. Suggestion: Use "Mob navigation hacks" as a category in the option dialog and then put "Teleport golems back if too far from home" as an option. The user can understand the option better then and if options are added, it is just another sub-option below the category.
3. Player starter pack: "type: bool" can be removed from the info text.
4. Do MineClone2 and Mineclonia share their preferences? I changed some options (change weather and debug) in the MCL2 option page and they were set on the MCLA option page, too and vice versa. Is this intentional, as there may be some options players would like to set on a per-game basis and not globally. - A) There codebase is forked from MineClone2 and they've probably not changed the namespace yet so it likely affects the same setting.

Translation:

• If you show me how, I would gladly contribute to the German translation of MineClone 2 text. - A) We have some info here: https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/Mi ... -Using-Git and on other wiki pages. If it's not helpful, feel free to come to Discord/Matrix and we can help you.

Improvements:

• Please include the Leash mod in MCL2 (see above, and it is in Minecraft).
• Please update the villager trading dialog (Mineclonia already has the new, more clear and easy trading dialog)

I may be adding pictures illustrating some issues later if I find the time.

When I mention Mineclonia for reference, I do not mean to do everything as in Mineclonia. MineClone 2 is a different game. But if I see an improvement there, I think and hope it is not too difficult to implement it in MCL2 to advance it further. At the moment I play more Mineclonia, but before that, I played many hours of MCL2 and have some worlds, I put many hours in. So I would be glad if I would play more MCL2 again in the future. The recent updated let me hope again for me to enjoy MCL2 again. So thanks again! :-)

Answers in bold above.

In the last year we've put a lot of work into performance and improving the base game. Mineclonia are backporting our work. It is easier to focus on adding icing to the cake when the cake is being produced already. If there are fixes that could help, it would require a contributor to create a PR to the MineClone2 repo, as we only have volunteers working in their free time.

We also desperately need people who can check out some PRs and test it. We don't merge without testing stuff and always could do with folk to help us. If devs aren't testing, they've got more time for developing.

[ancientmariner]

since about 0.84 or somewhere around that, there seems to be a severer lagging issue, it will be fine for a little while then grind to a halt, I left my last game after I got to less than 1 fps. same thing on another computer (that I were playing with) seen it happen on at least 2 or 3 maps (assuming its always happens, not map specific). is everyone getting that?

Yes been getting it a while, Mineclonia is fine and does not slow so dunno what is in Mineclone2 that lags it out

Mineclonia is a fork of MineClone2. I've not yet seen a fix go in that would massively affect performance that much. If you want to check out their repo to find the "fix" for it, or any functionality causing it in our repo via git bisect, we'll be happy to look into any fixes that could help.

[Kyoushi]

Thank you, ancientmariner, for the detailed answer! :-)

Leash mod in MCL2?). - A) Burgers can be used to lure. Villagers often find their way at the right time of day. Sometimes it takes them a little wondering to unconfuse themselves.

"Unconfuse" is a great description. ;-)

• Question to the point above: Is this what the hamburger is for? Is this meant as a workaround for the navigation / path finding issue? - A) Burgers are our leashes for villagers. Right click to get them to follow, right click to stop them following.

Okay, I was a bit confused as the Hamburger is not in other games. In Mineclonia luring villagers with beds and workstations seems to be easier, so the Hamburger is a great workaround. In my opinion it is a bit overpowered and should be an bit more complicated to craft. But as there is no salat and tomatoes, it is understandable that the recipie is so easy, Maybe sometimes, at lease cheese could be added (for example when you boil milk or something like that). ;-)

Not sure if I was too impatient or then had a lag problem when I tried that our, but I had problems with unlinking villagers when right-clicking with the Hamburger. Later I could unlink them without problem, so this works fine.

But don't forget to unlink, otherwise strange things could happen, as I reported in the issue tracker here. ;-)

• Village's houses spawn in different heights, […] - A) Our village spawning logic needs to be overhauled. It takes too long, is laggy and picks a random corner and makes it that high.

But it is already admirable how good villages already look and how much more life it brings into the game! :-) I ignored village(r)s a long time until I found joy in fixing and protecting villages as well as trading with and breeding villagers. But sometimes the challenge is quite high through the village spawning logic putting some houses in a deep pit and some on a high hill just besides each other, with the pathway dropping multiple blocks down from step to step. ;-)

• Tree leaves sometimes won't decay properly, even when the trunk is removed completely and there is no connection to another tree's leaves or other blocks. - A) I think it's probably within 6 blocks of another trunk or house.

Sometimes leaves do not seem to decay if they touch another non-tree block like a part of a house or a hill/mountain. I think that is not optimal. As well as trees in the place where a house spawns should not be partially removed, but completely.

If the tree trunks stay, it gives the village the flair of being still in construction, which is fine/nice. But if leaves still flow in the air (seems the decaying process is only triggered if the player removes the trunk, not if the game or a mod removes it) or a trunk hangs in the air, this looks strange.

• Addition to 1: […] I fenced off a village to prevent villagers falling into the deep with fences and walls, but sometimes they run around the fence on the wrong side even when fence/wall should prevent them to even go there, then falling into the deep, sometimes dying. […] - A) Are you sure they cannot jump over from a high block next to fence? Is there something over the other side they're interested in pathing towards? Like a job block, bell or bed?

I think it happened when a villager was wandering around, but maybe this path algorithm was trying to cut the way to his bed. The villager already managed to find his way multiple time and I smoothed out and optimized the way from his workplace to his house/bed, so it was strange to me that suddenly the algorithm failed and did not realize that the villager cannot jump over the fence when there was an easy way around.

The problem is the block the fence starts on. A mob can jump on this block and then move around the fence on the wrong side.

Sometimes villagers even end in animal enclosures inside the fence even when I now make sure that the area around the enclosure is flat for at least a further three blocks away from the fence. I think this has to do with mobs being able to jump on each other sometimes / propel each other up. This maybe regarded to the "flying villagers" issue I linked above.

I now build a further fence part sticking out in a way that there is no block under it a mob can jump on. Of course this does not look very nice. I also build house windows with glass blocks instead of glass panes because villagers tend to get stuck in them or do not find outside for probable the same reason they have navigation problems with fences.

• Grass grows or spawns on pathways. If intentional, then no problem, as this could be a run down village the player has to tidy up a bit first. - A) Probably not intentional. It's just we have like 850 bugs and some need attention before this, or a contributor hasn't decided to put in a PR for this.

To all devs and contributors: Keep on the good work! :-) Reason I post my observations and ideas is not to nag anyone, as I could easily start Minecraft and just play there. But I like Minetest and games like MCL2, MCLA and so on, the Open Source idea and the feeling of having more control of everything, not being left to the will of a big company. So I understand that some things have lower priority and try to report it in a way keeping that in mind. :-)

• Creeper will explode near villagers, too. In Mineclonia they only explore near the player and will not harm villagers or golems (last I can understand, killing villagers should be something for higher levels in a levelling system like easy, advanced, hardcore). - A) Fair point. I'm guessing MCLA has modified this, but I've not really looked into the detail.

I'm not really sure what the conditions are for those explosions, as I was not so close that I could be the cause of the creeper exploding. Sometimes golems get them quick enough, sometimes they don't explode near a villager if the creeper lurks directly outside the house. But it is noticeable that it happens frequently in MCL2 and not in MCLA. Maybe if there would be different levels, this would be good for hardcore mode. ;-)

• If you show me how, I would gladly contribute to the German translation of MineClone 2 text. - A) We have some info here: https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/Mi ... -Using-Git and on other wiki pages. If it's not helpful, feel free to come to Discord/Matrix and we can help you.

Thank you for the link, this is a good starting point! :-) But I will need some time to get used to it before I can contribute anything this way.

I joined the MineClone2 Discord server as Kyoshi2020, but I still have to find my way through the different channels. I will join the discussion if I can do it in a helpful way and will thankfully accept your offer to ask for help there! :-) Of course feel free to send me a message there if you have any further questions regarding issues I noticed or if I should check something out or provide additional information.

In the last year we've put a lot of work into performance and improving the base game. Mineclonia are backporting our work. It is easier to focus on adding icing to the cake when the cake is being produced already. If there are fixes that could help, it would require a contributor to create a PR to the MineClone2 repo, as we only have volunteers working in their free time.

We also desperately need people who can check out some PRs and test it. We don't merge without testing stuff and always could do with folk to help us. If devs aren't testing, they've got more time for developing.

I once tested a PR when a dev asked me to check if it fixes the bug I found. It took me a while to take the gist of it how to git clone and then switch branches, but I am willing to help with testing if needed for issues I noticed as this makes reproducing easier. Please as I am new to this, feel free to ask me directly if I can test something (and if possible help me with it a bit), then I try my best.

Yes been getting it a while, Mineclonia is fine and does not slow so dunno what is in Mineclone2 that lags it out

Mineclonia is a fork of MineClone2. I've not yet seen a fix go in that would massively affect performance that much. If you want to check out their repo to find the "fix" for it, or any functionality causing it in our repo via git bisect, we'll be happy to look into any fixes that could help.

In my experience, Mineclonia can lag as well as MineClone2, and ancientmariner confirmed that there is no code/engine difference regarding possible lagging, so I assume it is the surrounding and number of mobs or programs running in the background causing this problem. I have villages with many villagers through breeding and a lot of iron golems and the game can lag a lot. The same if I play multiplayer and start my browser to check something or look at the tutorial, it causes lag and slows down my girlfriend's game a lot if she is connected to my PC with the server running, so I think MCL2 is not to blame.

mrkaras: Check your surrounding if there are a lot of mobs (villages, spawners etc.), check underground, too. Close any unnecessary programs and check via task manager, if there are any programs using a lot of memory or CPU. After that close Minetest (not only leaving the game to the main menu) and restart. It should be fine again.

Not sure how to handle it if it's a multiplayer server with a lot of users online all the time.

Sorry for the long post and thanks to anyone taking the time to read. :-)

[mrkaras]

to reply to that last paragraph: its not a lack of PC power (cpu ram etc), but I rebooted and run mineclone anyway, it wasn't too long after I started actively playing it that the slowness started. I feel like its the torches, but I don't really have any evidence of it. minetest did not seem to be using much more ram when it was slow to normal.
I started a flat world in creative and just flew high enough to be out of the mobs reach and it seemed fine. I'll see if I can narrow down when it does or does not happen. when it happens ie becomes noticeable after about 1 MC day, probably unplayable before 2

[mrkaras]

OK, I found it. for anyone else having this issue I found the setting
mcl_node_particles = high
in my minetest.conf file fixes it, delete the line and it works, with it in it slows down. the version of minetest or mineclone don't seem to matter. I guess the setting is in the UI somewhere, I just didn't find it

[ancientmariner]

OK, I found it. for anyone else having this issue I found the setting
mcl_node_particles = high
in my minetest.conf file fixes it, delete the line and it works, with it in it slows down. the version of minetest or mineclone don't seem to matter. I guess the setting is in the UI somewhere, I just didn't find it

Ah interesting. I appreciate you identifying this issue. It's something that was raised previously by a server runner, and confirmed by 1 android user, but it's good to know it's impacting on multiple people. Some devices do struggle with particles. Android in particular. Most of those settings are configurable and can be turned down. Do you have more info on device, OS, ram/available ram after OS, ssd/hdd?

[Midnight]

Hey can anyone tell me why the mobs lag so much like when I punch a zombie it is pushed backward, but sometime later it teleports to 5 blocks away. Also when a I see a cow walking, it is teleported 5 times to its initial place.

[mrkaras]

OK, I found it. for anyone else having this issue I found the setting
mcl_node_particles = high
in my minetest.conf file fixes it, delete the line and it works, with it in it slows down. the version of minetest or mineclone don't seem to matter. I guess the setting is in the UI somewhere, I just didn't find it

Ah interesting. I appreciate you identifying this issue. It's something that was raised previously by a server runner, and confirmed by 1 android user, but it's good to know it's impacting on multiple people. Some devices do struggle with particles. Android in particular. Most of those settings are configurable and can be turned down. Do you have more info on device, OS, ram/available ram after OS, ssd/hdd?

my device is:
windows 10
i7 12700
16 Gb ram
gforce rtx 4080
OS is on and SSD but minetest is on a hdd

[Elouin]

Hey,
I created a containerfile for mineclone2. You can find it here: https://codeberg.org/Elouin/mineclone2-container
I also build and released an image at: https://codeberg.org/Elouin/-/packages/ ... ne2/0.86.2

[mine_eru]

I wanted to see what's going on in the game (I normally use mineclone, because it has faster development, better performance, and mineclone5 is no longer available). And now there's only a ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: Lua: Runtime error from mod '??' in callback ??(): <no description>, even on a clean installation. Mineclonia works without problems ;)

[OverkillTASF]

I've got an older Minetest world... do I have to do anything after an upgrade to get things like new monsters etc? How about things like pillager outposts/villages that have been added since my world was created? If those things will only get created when generating blocks, is there something I can/need to do to regenerate swaths of the world without impacitng playing built structures?

[Grigor]

SAFETY ZONE?
I’ve lately been setting up base in the middle of a biggish lake, maybe 20 blocks from shore. I pour a lava bucket on the water and build a modest 5 x 7 outpost around the resulting obsidian block. I can be out there all night and there are no monsters at all, and I can just catch fish in peace. Has anyone else tried this? Would it work in real MC?
I imagine if there are cave openings below something might spawn and attack from there: if so, one could just swim down and plug up the cave opening.
Just curious - it seems too easy as a means of staying safely out at night, and no-one online seems to be discussing it much at all. Huge thanks to all contributors on this project, you're doing a fantastic job!

[ancientmariner]

I've got an older Minetest world... do I have to do anything after an upgrade to get things like new monsters etc? How about things like pillager outposts/villages that have been added since my world was created? If those things will only get created when generating blocks, is there something I can/need to do to regenerate swaths of the world without impacitng playing built structures?

Before you do anything, back up your world.

The game should hopefully upgrade most stuff without problems. If not, we'd like to hear it.

Of course, if the map is already generated, you won't get new content in those areas. The game generates in areas that either are undiscovered or you use deleteblocks (WARNING, destructive and if you wipe out a nether portal you could be up a certain creek without a paddle) command. I have no idea how to retain a structure. Maybe there are world edit like tools, or I think the schema tool can be used to create a schema from a structure and make that structure. This is all dangerous and not recommended. Fresh generation is easier, and better. Maybe you make a new base in new area.

Good luck.

[ancientmariner]

SAFETY ZONE?
I’ve lately been setting up base in the middle of a biggish lake, maybe 20 blocks from shore. I pour a lava bucket on the water and build a modest 5 x 7 outpost around the resulting obsidian block. I can be out there all night and there are no monsters at all, and I can just catch fish in peace. Has anyone else tried this? Would it work in real MC?
I imagine if there are cave openings below something might spawn and attack from there: if so, one could just swim down and plug up the cave opening.
Just curious - it seems too easy as a means of staying safely out at night, and no-one online seems to be discussing it much at all. Huge thanks to all contributors on this project, you're doing a fantastic job!

You could do that. We don't have drowned, or phantoms, which makes this much safer. Some mobs can accidentally spawn in water though, so I'd be cautious, but it's probably pretty safe.

[Grigor]

Further to my last - some mobs do spawn in shallow water <3 blocks deep (will set up a research facility to get some more exact numbers) but in this version of the game, in deeper water, I've had no trouble at all SO FAR. It's a good way to quickly acquire enchanted fishing rods, bows, and books.
See how we overcome additional baddies as they are added to the game. At least I don't have to worry about those damn creepers!

[Fhelron]

Hello everyone!
I have a suggestion or idea for the Mineclone2 subgame.
Could you possibly add leads directly in Mineclone2?
They already exist as a mod, but I would be happy if they were included directly in the game.

[Midnight]

Hello everyone!
I have a suggestion or idea for the Mineclone2 subgame.
Could you possibly add leads directly in Mineclone2?
They already exist as a mod, but I would be happy if they were included directly in the game.

That is a request that only the owner will do

[Fhelron]

Hello everyone!
I have a suggestion or idea for the Mineclone2 subgame.
Could you possibly add leads directly in Mineclone2?
They already exist as a mod, but I would be happy if they were included directly in the game.

That is a request that only the owner will do

ok

[Wuzzy]

Hello! Since MineClone 2 is hosted on git.minetest.land, a Gitea instance, this news is relevant for you:

There has been a fork of Gitea a while ago, called Forgejo because there was a corporate takeover of Gitea. Gitea is now essentially an "open core" project. Gitea itself is still free software, but it becomes more and more obvious the company that took over wants to sell you an "optional" proprietary product offered next to Gitea.

https://codeberg.org/forgejo/discussions/issues/102

Feature-wise, Forgejo is almost the same, but the project team is much more committed to free software standards. For example, their translations are hosted on Weblate rather than Crowdin (which is proprietary software). I myself have contributed to Forgejo translations already. Forgejo has been proven to work with the website codeberg.org, the largest Forgejo instance.

Forgejo recently decided to make a hard fork so if you want to migrate to it, it's better to do it sooner than later because at this stage, it's still a simple drop-in-replacement. Later, migration will become harder (but not impossible).

viewtopic.php?t=30265

I don't remember who the admin of git.minetest.land is, but I strongly recommend to migrate to Forgejo.

[DDeevviiaanntt]

Wuzzy is continuing development of Mineclone 2! I'm so happy!

[jordan4ibanez]

Someone to replied to me but I can't find it so I say to that: sorry mysterious person for not reading your mysterious reply

[Wuzzy]

Lol, no, I did not return to MCL2 development. I was just calling attention to the Forgejo hard fork, that's all.

My current project is Repixture.

[mine_eru]

I wanted to see what's going on in the game (I normally use mineclone, because it has faster development, better performance, and mineclone5 is no longer available). And now there's only a ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: Lua: Runtime error from mod '??' in callback ??(): <no description>, even on a clean installation. Mineclonia works without problems ;)

is this game still in development? Since I installed the newer minetest 5.8.0 instead of 5.6.1, I have not been able to play for longer than a second. It's a bit strange that a critical bug hasn't been fixed for over a month

AsyncErr: Lua: Runtime error from mod '??' in callback on_emerge_area_completion(): "Runtime error from mod '??' in callback ??(): <no description>"
stack traceback:
[C]: in function 'spawn_doll'
...est/games/mineclone2/mods/ITEMS/mcl_mobspawners/init.lua:127: in function 'setup_spawner'
...etest/games/mineclone2/mods/MAPGEN/mcl_dungeons/init.lua:399: in function <...etest/games/mineclone2/mods/MAPGEN/mcl_dungeons/init.lua:128>

[ancientmariner]

I wanted to see what's going on in the game (I normally use mineclone, because it has faster development, better performance, and mineclone5 is no longer available). And now there's only a ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: Lua: Runtime error from mod '??' in callback ??(): <no description>, even on a clean installation. Mineclonia works without problems ;)

is this game still in development? Since I installed the newer minetest 5.8.0 instead of 5.6.1, I have not been able to play for longer than a second. It's a bit strange that a critical bug hasn't been fixed for over a month

AsyncErr: Lua: Runtime error from mod '??' in callback on_emerge_area_completion(): "Runtime error from mod '??' in callback ??(): <no description>"
stack traceback:
[C]: in function 'spawn_doll'
...est/games/mineclone2/mods/ITEMS/mcl_mobspawners/init.lua:127: in function 'setup_spawner'
...etest/games/mineclone2/mods/MAPGEN/mcl_dungeons/init.lua:399: in function <...etest/games/mineclone2/mods/MAPGEN/mcl_dungeons/init.lua:128>

The game is actively developed, but without steps to recreate, we cannot fix bugs. Your first comment basically says crash happens in mod (??) with very little information to go on. I don't think I have seen this issue mentioned by another player yet so it seems rare. This comment is much more helpful as it has line numbers and where the crash occurs. I've posted a link for this so the devs can see this.